L'LHS2 scarseggia

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Offline giobri

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Re: L'LHS2 scarseggia
« Risposta #15 il: Marzo 12, 2011, 03:14:01 pm »
Ottime info, Grazie Maurizio per la pubblicazione... ho appena acquistato 3 lt di LHS-2 ma sono molto interessato a questa discussione come credo tutti gli LHS-2isti...!  [:clap] [:clap]
Giovanni                                           

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Offline DS211970

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Re: L'LHS2 scarseggia
« Risposta #16 il: Marzo 13, 2011, 10:41:58 am »
Use of Castor Oil and DOT 4 Brake Fluid in the Blending of a Substitute for LHS2 in Black Hydraulic System Citroëns


The Citroën DS/ID series automobile was first shown to the public in 1955 and sold until 1975, when production figures reached 1,330,755 (1996, Reynolds/de Lange, p.22). The car utilized a unique suspension and control system based upon hydropneumatic principles. This feature gave the car its singularly comfortable ride, and was a precursor to highly developed systems now used in military vehicles and cars.

Traditional suspension springs were replaced by gas-filled spheres which topped hydraulic cylinders. Damping was provided by way of restrictors between the two, and a system of valves and linkages provided automatic and manual control of the ride height. Major components of the system included the pump, the regulator and the reservoir. These, along with related parts, were painted black. Besides the suspension, the system was used to enable power assisted steering, braking, and transmission declutching and shifting on various models.

Until 1964, all cars used a castor-based hydraulic fluid in this system that was red in color called CH12, when it was supplanted by synthetic LHS2 (Reynolds, p.22). In 1966, the use of LHS2 began to be phased out in favor of a mineral base fluid that was green in color. The older, LHS2 fluid cars used seals and other parts that were incompatible to the new LHM, and thus could not utilize the advantages of the new type of fluid. To protect against cross contamination of incompatible fluids, a potential disaster, the component color was changed to green.

Production of LHS2 has dwindled to almost nothing, and in many areas, it is not available at all. It is unknown at this time how many of the early, LHS2 fluid cars survive, but there are enough of them to make it a worthy effort to supply owners with some kind of substitute for unavailable fluids, or to find a blend of liquids that would copy the characteristics of the earlier CH12. As stated earlier, this fluid is known to be castor-based, so it will be easier to copy.

At this time, many owners use DOT 4 brake fluid. This works, but viscosity differences cause numerous system problems such as malfunctions of orifice controlled operations, excessive noise and deteriorated ride and handling. Lack of lubricity has caused excessive wear to critical parts and seals.

I have decided to rediscover the correct ratio to blend castor oil and DOT 4 brake fluid and thus simulate the characteristics of CH12. Trials performed during the summer of 1999 on my own car, a U.S. export specification 1968 ID 19, showed promising results. Cycle times improved as well as the sound level during pump operation. Ride characteristics improved and steering effort decreased as well as its associated noise. Seal leakage diminished considerably. No doubt, the added lubrication was a benefit. But the optimum ratio was not found. Excessive amounts of castor oil led to undesired behavior and cold weather caused more problems, most likely because of elevated viscosity.

In the near future, I will commence the second stage of my research by performing a series of tests on examples of LHS2 (I cannot find any CH12) and blends of commercially available brands of DOT 4 fluid and castor oil of the type purchased in hobby shops and used in model 2 stroke engines. These 2 components should be available to a majority of Citroën owners. The tests will include viscosity, specific gravity, acidity and road trials. A possible third stage will be to approximate the red color of the original fluid.

Before actual testing can begin, three temperatures must be selected to simulate those found in daily automobile use. 2 of the 3 are known at this time. The lowest temperature has been chosen at 0 F. The next is room temperature, 60-75 F. The highest temperature has yet to be ascertained. I will not be able to do this until warm weather, as my car is in storage.

If you would like to contribute information, or if you own a Citroën of any year and live in a warm climate, I would appreciate hearing from you. You could do this part of the test for me by inserting a thermometer into your reservoir after a long drive and recording the results. If anyone knows the whereabouts of a quantity of original CH12, please let me know.

Email me at citroenid19@sbcglobal.net

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Copyright 2007 by Mark L. Bardenwerper, Sr. All rights reserved. Last Modified 3/27/07

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Offline MAMBO

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Re: L'LHS2 scarseggia
« Risposta #17 il: Marzo 14, 2011, 08:10:26 am »
Use of Castor Oil and DOT 4 Brake Fluid in the Blending of a Substitute for LHS2 in Black Hydraulic System Citroëns


The Citroën DS/ID series automobile was first shown to the public in 1955 and sold until 1975, when production figures reached 1,330,755 (1996, Reynolds/de Lange, p.22). The car utilized a unique suspension and control system based upon hydropneumatic principles. This feature gave the car its singularly comfortable ride, and was a precursor to highly developed systems now used in military vehicles and cars.

Traditional suspension springs were replaced by gas-filled spheres which topped hydraulic cylinders. Damping was provided by way of restrictors between the two, and a system of valves and linkages provided automatic and manual control of the ride height. Major components of the system included the pump, the regulator and the reservoir. These, along with related parts, were painted black. Besides the suspension, the system was used to enable power assisted steering, braking, and transmission declutching and shifting on various models.

Until 1964, all cars used a castor-based hydraulic fluid in this system that was red in color called CH12, when it was supplanted by synthetic LHS2 (Reynolds, p.22). In 1966, the use of LHS2 began to be phased out in favor of a mineral base fluid that was green in color. The older, LHS2 fluid cars used seals and other parts that were incompatible to the new LHM, and thus could not utilize the advantages of the new type of fluid. To protect against cross contamination of incompatible fluids, a potential disaster, the component color was changed to green.

Production of LHS2 has dwindled to almost nothing, and in many areas, it is not available at all. It is unknown at this time how many of the early, LHS2 fluid cars survive, but there are enough of them to make it a worthy effort to supply owners with some kind of substitute for unavailable fluids, or to find a blend of liquids that would copy the characteristics of the earlier CH12. As stated earlier, this fluid is known to be castor-based, so it will be easier to copy.

At this time, many owners use DOT 4 brake fluid. This works, but viscosity differences cause numerous system problems such as malfunctions of orifice controlled operations, excessive noise and deteriorated ride and handling. Lack of lubricity has caused excessive wear to critical parts and seals.

I have decided to rediscover the correct ratio to blend castor oil and DOT 4 brake fluid and thus simulate the characteristics of CH12. Trials performed during the summer of 1999 on my own car, a U.S. export specification 1968 ID 19, showed promising results. Cycle times improved as well as the sound level during pump operation. Ride characteristics improved and steering effort decreased as well as its associated noise. Seal leakage diminished considerably. No doubt, the added lubrication was a benefit. But the optimum ratio was not found. Excessive amounts of castor oil led to undesired behavior and cold weather caused more problems, most likely because of elevated viscosity.

In the near future, I will commence the second stage of my research by performing a series of tests on examples of LHS2 (I cannot find any CH12) and blends of commercially available brands of DOT 4 fluid and castor oil of the type purchased in hobby shops and used in model 2 stroke engines. These 2 components should be available to a majority of Citroën owners. The tests will include viscosity, specific gravity, acidity and road trials. A possible third stage will be to approximate the red color of the original fluid.

Before actual testing can begin, three temperatures must be selected to simulate those found in daily automobile use. 2 of the 3 are known at this time. The lowest temperature has been chosen at 0 F. The next is room temperature, 60-75 F. The highest temperature has yet to be ascertained. I will not be able to do this until warm weather, as my car is in storage.

If you would like to contribute information, or if you own a Citroën of any year and live in a warm climate, I would appreciate hearing from you. You could do this part of the test for me by inserting a thermometer into your reservoir after a long drive and recording the results. If anyone knows the whereabouts of a quantity of original CH12, please let me know.

Email me at citroenid19@sbcglobal.net

Home Top
Copyright 2007 by Mark L. Bardenwerper, Sr. All rights reserved. Last Modified 3/27/07

Tradotto..... [???]
STEFANO

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Offline giobri

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Re: L'LHS2 scarseggia
« Risposta #18 il: Marzo 15, 2011, 05:36:41 pm »
Tradotto..... [???]
In pratica dice che ha usato dot 4 e olio di ricino miscelati ma con risultati non completamente soddisfacenti.. Niente da fa'... O LHM o colza o forse RR363... Io ho un paio di litri di castrol M di 30 anni fa (ricino) usabile come lubrificante per motori modellistici, praticamente e' melassa! Per il momento io mitengo il mio lhs2
Giovanni                                           

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Offline Martini

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Re: L'LHS2 scarseggia
« Risposta #19 il: Marzo 15, 2011, 06:34:47 pm »
In pratica dice che ha usato dot 4 e olio di ricino miscelati ma con risultati non completamente soddisfacenti.. Niente da fa'... O LHM o colza o forse RR363... Io ho un paio di litri di castrol M di 30 anni fa (ricino) usabile come lubrificante per motori modellistici, praticamente e' melassa! Per il momento io mitengo il mio lhs2

Bravo. Lassa perde la melassa all'olio di ricino. Quando finirai l'LHS, lava l'impianto (che ogni tanto gli fa bene e togli l'umidità dal circuito) ed usa la formula degli amici del Club Rolls: 100ml di ricino su 1000ml di RR363 e vai che è una meraviglia.

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Offline giobri

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Re: L'LHS2 scarseggia
« Risposta #20 il: Marzo 17, 2011, 01:03:34 am »
Bravo. Lassa perde la melassa all'olio di ricino. Quando finirai l'LHS, lava l'impianto (che ogni tanto gli fa bene e togli l'umidità dal circuito) ed usa la formula degli amici del Club Rolls: 100ml di ricino su 1000ml di RR363 e vai che è una meraviglia.

Ciao Maurizio, puoi fornirmi l'esatta procedura e materiali per il lavaggio dell'impianto idraulico?   [:hello] [:hello]
Giovanni                                           

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Offline roby3

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Re: L'LHS2 scarseggia
« Risposta #21 il: Marzo 17, 2011, 09:37:25 am »
Bravo. Lassa perde la melassa all'olio di ricino. Quando finirai l'LHS, lava l'impianto (che ogni tanto gli fa bene e togli l'umidità dal circuito) ed usa la formula degli amici del Club Rolls: 100ml di ricino su 1000ml di RR363 e vai che è una meraviglia.

.."vai" in tutti i sensi, immagino, visto che si tratta di olio di ricino.... :) :)
ROBERTO

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Offline FAPEBA

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Re: L'LHS2 scarseggia
« Risposta #22 il: Marzo 17, 2011, 05:01:33 pm »
Ciao,
se interessati al prodotto,al momento ne ho a disposizione un certo quantitativo il costo è di 12 euro il litro.Da non miscelare assolutamente con prodotti a base siliconica !!!
Per quanto ne so in Francia c'è gia' chi ha avuto modo di provarlo, riferendo risultati soddisfacenti.
Riccardo.
« Ultima modifica: Marzo 17, 2011, 05:03:18 pm da FAPEBA »

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Offline SCARABEO

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Re: L'LHS2 scarseggia
« Risposta #23 il: Novembre 06, 2011, 08:27:07 pm »

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Offline Emanuele

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Re: L'LHS2 scarseggia
« Risposta #24 il: Novembre 20, 2011, 05:21:45 pm »
Ciao, dal sito "le nuancier" un interessante riassunto sulla situazione LHS, in francese, quindi masticabile ai più!
http://www.nuancierds.fr/Tribune14.htm
Ciao, Emanuele

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Offline ERIKKE

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Re: L'LHS2 scarseggia
« Risposta #25 il: Novembre 20, 2011, 08:51:37 pm »

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Offline Admin

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Re: L'LHS2 scarseggia
« Risposta #26 il: Novembre 20, 2011, 08:56:42 pm »
Non ti preoccupare, per un proprietario di DS/ID a LHS, se la vuoi tenere come si deve, è l'ultimo dei problemi...  [:fiu]

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Offline ERIKKE

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Re: L'LHS2 scarseggia
« Risposta #27 il: Novembre 20, 2011, 09:01:26 pm »
Non ti preoccupare, per un proprietario di DS/ID a LHS, se la vuoi tenere come si deve, è l'ultimo dei problemi...  [:fiu]

credo di si a sto punto...

 [:hello]

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Offline giobri

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Re: L'LHS2 scarseggia
« Risposta #28 il: Novembre 20, 2011, 09:13:20 pm »
ammazza un litro 32 euro?

 [:hello]

Io il BP l'ho pagato 45 euro al litro!  :-\ :-\
Giovanni                                           

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Offline fischer

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Re: L'LHS2 scarseggia
« Risposta #29 il: Novembre 20, 2011, 09:25:37 pm »
Io il BP l'ho pagato 45 euro al litro!  :-\ :-\
A questo punto converrebbe modificare l'impianto e metterci dell'amarone!